Consumption Guide Discussion

Here's another one of the disaster zones probably no one is aware of, FF training area in Borden that you could see the stuff oozing out of the ground and running into Bear Creek. I have no idea how many years that stuff was used but you can imagine. PFAS

I'm not sure what your source of info is, but those oils are quite natural.

Yes, waters downstream of Camp Borden would be one of the places I know about where PFOS/PFAS contamination data are available but not being released (my guess is likely there is some concerns about legal actions, etc., etc....maybe....once released).

With respect to plant-based oils. There maybe nothing wrong with the oil itself. As far as I have heard from folks looking into the plant oils, the focus is on the extraction and refinement process. There are chems that are used to increase the yield and then they remove those chems to purify but it's either near impossible or too costly to remove all of it so there is some level of these chems that are "allowable" by gov'ts. And that level appears to be different country-by-country. In some places where I spend some time away from Canada for work, I often read about contaminated imported plant-based cooking oils (including PCBs accidentally or intentionally added or not removed sufficiently to meet those local allowable levels) - I think but can't remember for sure so don't shoot me on this, benzene is one of the culprits used and not fully extracted out later. When I am away, I also have seen Costco food products (same KS brands sold in Canada) are sometimes recalled because of levels of x, y, z were above the local regulations' levels yet, I never hear of the same products being taken off the shelves back home in Canada because of the same reason (most of these products have some kind of plant-based oil being a major component). I know a CFIA officer who told me once that there is no way they have enough staff to monitor all the products coming into Canada (or all the restaurants) and so they kind of work off the "drop-dead" factor where they really only go inspecting seriously when people start dropping ill (horrible thought) or if there is alot of complaints coming in. I hate to say it but I know some of the countries that I visit do alot more inspections of food products and have stricter (lower) levels for various chemicals than Canada (even though we would like to think we are "better" than most, it's not true). When able to visit other countries and actually living amongst the locals and seeing what is happening locally (not just being a tourist without a care about what goes on in society), it's really eye-opening how closed our eyes can be to the realities outside our great country. But I always miss home (but we can be better if we wanted to and if that is important to most of us). Hate the fact that our future generations will keep getting a worse and worse natural environment (and more and more contaminated fish to eat).

You sound quite well informed about those oils. Do you think your sources are reliable? I may dig into it myself to become better informed. That's quite unsettling. The most oil we consume is the olive oil on salads.

On related matters--I just recently became aware of the hazards of Teflon coated frypans even though that has been identified for a few years already. We have 2 new ones now---one ceramic coated, the other copper coated plus the old reliable cast iron that my wife cannot lift. I would not trust the 'new and improved' Teflon replacement plastics either. Their hazard just hasn't been established yet.

A biologist friend of mine pointed out to me a few years back that there is no such thing as a pristine lake, even in the high arctic. Sources such as burning plastics in the South put contaminants in the air that get swept North and precipitated down into the lakes.Yet many continue to burn garbage incl plastics.

I would say his sources are reliable, I know mine are. As for your olive oil, yes you should do some research on it, you would be surprised the crap they are allowed to sell as olive oil, you would probably better off letting Popeyes wife, Olive Oil do the cooking for you. A lot of the olive oils in the same bottle come from multiple countries and then blended. Take a real good look and maybe you will find the mafia connection.
You'd be better off with Avocado oil, "Chosen" is the only brand I use.

My sources are pretty good...some chemists in the food industry. For many years, I use to feel not completely well after eating out in one of the countries I have spent alot of time in and could not nail down that one of few items that was causing this as there was no pattern with the nausea feeling. Then finally the oils came to mind...that was the common denominator that I was not looking at. Once I decide it may be that and changed what I chose to eat either cooking myself and staying away from the typical veggie oils (some maybe a bit better than others) or choosing foods at restaurants that didn't need much oil, I started feeling much better after meals.
Olive oil is going through some serious problems. We have greatly reduced our olive oil use because of all the issues with fraud, rancid oils, etc., other kinds of oils being mixed into decent olive oils and being passed as EVOO when it's not, etc., etc. And there is really no way to avoid the fakes (even "good" name brands are selling less than stellar products these days). We only buy small amounts of olive oil for very specific purposes (taste issues for certain recipes). Anything and everything we can replace olive oil with, we will and as Fishermen said, we have gone to cold pressed avocado or coconut oil (neither is cheap so we don't use alot). We have also started to use grass-fed butter or lard from pasture raised pigs by farmers we know that is a whole 'nother topic for the future - i.e., that animal fats are bad for human health).
I am not so concerned about the blending of olive oils from various countries olives but I am more concerned about the addition of non-olive veggie based oils to increase the volume of the "olive oil" being sold as well as the adding of rancid oil or oils that is well beyond their best before times....this is happening more and more as the global olive oil crop is facing some serious problems. Again, nothing really wrong with the oil itself but its all the other stuff that goes into the bottles that are sold that is the concerning part for me anyway. There is some interesting investigative books on the issues with olive oil. And I can only see the problem getting worse. Unless you know an olive farmer (or the don of a Mafia clan), you are unlikely to get as good a product as you think you are getting when you buy olive oil these days at any store. Any bottle that shows the harvest date (not the bottling date) helps one part of the problem but it doesn't eliminate all the other problems. This applies even to some of the most expensive olive oils you can find...there is just no way to know what you are getting when you buy olive oil these days. All those stocking up on olive oil with the looming crop crash crisis (prices are sure to increases alot as supply decrease) are not understanding that the oils are only good for a fairly short time before most of the good health benefits are reduced greatly.
I am not sure what we can replace the olive oil used on salads with at this point and so we are still buying some olive oil for this purpose. But like I have told my wife, if I have to eat any crappy food, then it better taste damn good.
We have also gone to ceramic non-stick pans (expensive so we are still in the process of switching over completely and also needing to find the right kinds of pans for our various uses). Cast iron would be great if not for the weight so that's out of the question for us for most of our applications. Never thought about copper (may look into it). I agree the new coatings replacing the old is a huge unknown.
Yes, there is no such thing as "pristine" (if pristine means no contaminants). There are a large number of lakes that have natural mercury and so would not be good lakes to eat alot of fish from (not due to human pollution issues...just natural). And at the same time, alot of what we are doing here and anywhere there are humans, is putting more contaminants into the environment including in very secluded places. Off west coast of Vancouver, there are some killer whales that have the highest levels of fire retardants in their tissues in the world and have been called the "fire-proof" killer whales...these live in Canadian and US waters (we are supposedly cleaner/greener than most other countries!). Arctic areas are highly vulnerable to some kinds of contaminants settling out of the air up there and are known as sinks for those contaminants.
It's quite depressing to think about how things are going. But as others have said, in the end, the decisions to eat or not to eat certain things is up to them based on their own unique risks but I would like to have as much scientifically sound information as I can to make the best choices/decisions for me (and my family).

some really great information here

i have gotten away from all non stick cookware over the past few years and am sticking with stainless steel. love the cast iron, but as other have stated it. cast iron is heavy



as for fish consumption , I do not eat any lake trout anymore unless they are less than 2 pounds and that maybe 2 times per year

tuna and the like.......nope

coho salmon ...yup

main diet of fish is perch and walleye


I worked on a project in hudson bay backin the 80's and there were several contaminents identified back then........it has just gotten worse unfortunately

Back in the early 90s when I was in college, I remember talking with a Bio from MOE or MNR (Can't remember which). He said the same thing - avoid lake trout because they are slow growing and will bio-accumulate much higher levels of toxins. Salmon aren't as bad because they only live for 5 years (the ones we catch in the lake are typically younger) and don't have the same amount of time to accumulate the toxins.

That being said, I have reduced the amount of fish I eat (as much as I love it). I'm predominantly eating perch these days and walleye when I can find them. (Lake Erie is a bit of a hike for me LOL)

When it comes to toxins I've often wondered how they impact wild game as well - waterfowl as a prime example eating aquatic vegetation, crustaceans etc. I used to keep the giblets, but don't anymore for that reason (just speculation on my part).

^^This for me with the odd pike and ling thrown in - still eating off Nip 2024 ice fishing perch stash. The odd small brookie for me as well. Pretty sure the bacon i eat does far more harm than any fish. And actually use the bacon fat to season my cast iron and fry the fish in. If it ends my life early so be it - it was worth it.

The best fats to eat are animal fats, of course not Orcas full of PFSA.
1) Beef fat (grass feed), bear fat, wild game fats, buffalo fat
2) Beef fat (CAFO)
3) Ghee
4) Butter
5) Pork lard (grass raised)
6) Duck fat
7) Coconut oil and palm oil to some degree
8) Olive oils (not recommend for frying), just for salads if is pressed cold virgin (very difficult to find this in Canada, unless you travel to Spain, Italy, Greece) - the one in Canada is mostly fake, blend with cheap oils. The rest of the oils are pure cancer, diabetics, obesity (canola, corn, soy, cotton, etc).
The explanation is very simple, the vegetable oils promotes as healthy are named PUFA (Poly Unsaturared), these are long chain molecule that oxidize very fast under heat or sun exposure.
Oxidized fats lead to bad blood circulation, arteriosclerosis, debilitated pancreas (diabetes), NAFD (fatty liver), cancer. This is well documented and the doctors who promote this are silenced because this does not fit well with big food industry profits and big pharma (statins business). Animal fats are saturated fats have short molecule and are stable under heat and sun. Fish fats are between the PUFA and animal fats. Fish fats oxidize fast but not as fast as vegetable ones. Human body in average needs 1% vegetable oils, 15% fish oils (Omega 3) and the rest around 80%+ saturated fats (animal fats). People who eats predominantly animal fats do not get sunburn, people who eats predominantly vegetable oils have sensitive cell membranes and get sunburn easy and get all the chronic diseases.
Cancer, diabetes, Parkinson, Alzheimer are not complete different diseases, these are related disease, depending of what part of the body is metabolicaly compromise (clogged). The high consumption in vegetables oils in last 100 years is the MAIN contributor.

Here is the proof of what is Canola Oil, a Engine Lubricant branded as comestible oil.
This Is How Canada Convinced You To Eat Engine Lubricant
Canola Oil History
These oils are not natural oils, these oils are artificial oils, the body has no use fro them, just to clog the arteries and the membranes of the cells.

Bill Gates wants to have all the food patented, to collect the franchise on fake meat products and have real meat banned from store and eventuality restrict fishing and hunting. The evil is in details. Follow the money. Always support our Canadian farmers, buy directly avoid big food corp. Eat real meat not fake junk burgers with hundreds of chemical ingredients that have nothing to do with real nutrition.

References books to read:
Deep Nutrition: Why Your Genes Need Traditional Food by Catherine Shanahan, M.D.
Food Over Medicine: The Conversation That Could Save Your Life by Pamela A. Popper (Author), Glen Merzer (Author), Del Sroufe (Contributor)
The Plant Paradox - Dr. Gundry
Nutrition and physical degeneration - Dr. Weston A Price 2009
Bruce Ames - Triage Theory, Longevity Vitamins & Micronutrients and Vitamin and mineral inadeqacy accelerates aging
And many more.

??

People who eat animal fats don't get Sun burn? ???
Melanin is what causes the our resistance to sun burns in skin. It has zero to do with eating animal fats.

Anyone using the blame,big pharma,loses credibility immediately. Ironically the people blaming big pharma for so much are the same people toting holistic pactices, and by the way the holistic market is worth ten times what big pharma is worth in North America. Who has more to lose and steer with misinformation?

Vegetable fats like found in vegetable oil are proven to be better for us than animal fats. Meta studies with controlled studies have proven this time and time again. Lower risk of heart disease is a huge factor in vegetable fats being better for us among many other benefits.

Agree mostly with the comments about fish to eat. Eat the smaller ones (less time accumulating contaminants) and the ones that do not live as long or eat as many fatty bait fish. Large lakers don't taste that good anyway so that's a fortunate thing and the large ones are good to put back for producing alot of smaller ones that are better food. Small lakers that don't eat much fish (esp. fatty fish like smelt) are the best tasting anyway, in my opinion. Perch in the 10-11" or smaller range are great in most lakes (and Simcoe too - thank god!!) and most other panfish as well. The information in the Guide does give a decent overview of this same general pattern. But the odd larger fish shouldn't cause any problems for most people either, of course. Again, would like to have the information available and updated often so if there are changes in our environment, I can change my behaviour as well if I decide there is a need to do so.

Interesting that you mentions Hudson Bay. I think most people would not believe that's the case being so far away from heavily populated places. So it's good that you mentioned it from your own direct past experiences...and yes, it is almost certainly worse now and will likely get worse (it's not an area where too many eyes are on so any bad behaviour will likely get overlooked for the many dollars that a few are getting from polluting industries). That is the downside of being remote to most...no one will care too much about those "pristine" places either when things happen.

I looked up the consumption guide for G Bay. There are several stations or nodes with different reccomendations. I have shown a couple in the attached pic. For lakers at least, they are very different from the ones you quote from MI. Also notice that the limit for lakers is higher than for chinooks, at least for one node, despite being slower growers than chinooks. Interesting!

[QUOTE=

Vegetable fats like found in vegetable oil are proven to be better for us than animal fats. Meta studies with controlled studies have proven this time and time again. Lower risk of heart disease is a huge factor in vegetable fats being better for us among many other benefits. [/QUOTE]

Canola oil was created first for aviation as a lubricant, it is not food, fat that body can use.
I posted above the history og fit, did you bother to see it.

=> Vegetable fats like found in vegetable oil are proven to be better for us than animal fats" = FALSE

How is that when Vitamin A in plants is betacaroten a form of Vitamin that the human body cannot use till it converts (very low percentages, difficult process for the liver) to vitamin A animal type named: retinol. vegan vitamin D2 is useless for human body than uses needs D3, rate of conversion close to 0.
Both are vegetable fat vitamins crucial for human body to function.

FACT: Dogs/cats feed with processed foods (full of fake meat and vegetable oils) die earlier obese with cancer, dogs feed with real meat die at the end of their life and are never obese.

=> "Meta studies with controlled studies have proven this time and time again. " - Who funded these studies, Big food industry? Please post one here to see it.

BTW: The chronic diseases we know today are in direct correlation with the high consumption of artificial vegetable oils, the charts for the last 100 years do not lies.
I am going to enjoy today a Wagyu with the best fats possible in a piece of meat.
The zealots freaks who wants to "save the planet" with carbon tax, fake meat they need to do that (pay more taxes and eat fake meat, vegetable oils). But last time a checked the royals were eating the blue lobster and Bil Gates was eating a fake burger by just nibbling the burger he created.
There is a big price to pay today if you are naive, the devil is in details. Amin.