WARNING 30th sdrd kemp, Ice break off

Some people aren't able to tell the difference between these 2 very different things.

Yup!

Now I am sooo confused over this debate. I don't know whether to wind my watch or go for a sh$t.

Can't you do both simultaneously?? Try patting your head and rubbing your belly for practice.

Knuguy I am sorry but you’re not correct. Ice does not ever contract. When water becomes ice the molecules continue to expand until they form a uniform structure. At this point it does not contract or expand but remains constant. Only when ice melts and become water at above zero degrees Celsius does the water contract and become denser. This continues until 4 degrees Celsius at which point water can not reach a denser state. At higher temperatures than 4 degrees Celsius water molecules become excited and cause expansion in the water volume.

The simple fact is ice does not ever contract in size and other variables cause pressure cracks such as current wind and more ice formation.

My original post was just to point out that water does not act like a solid and ice does not shrink the colder it gets. This is just a scientific fact.

The expansion of ice is also why it floats. Water is denser than ice and has more compressed molecules(closer together). The ice floats as it is lighter due to the molecules moving apart and causing expansion. If at any point ice contracted in size it would sink like a brick and that is just not possible.

Sounds like you somehow assume ice is formed in a flash freeze and instantly - suddenly from water to ice like magic - then boom it's a solid?

You're joking, right?

We all know that's now how it forms. It expands slowly, over time, as the temperature drops.

Quite obviously is EXPANDS TO A CERTAIN POINT - his claim was that STOPS at a certain point at -35 degrees. ONCE IT FORMS that stable molecule and SOLID BLOCK of ice.


Neither of you know what is being argued sooooooo at this point, what is the point?

My god. lol

My response is not do you Disco, obviously. I got your back! lol

This is getting ridiculous

When water freezes it expands by 9%, that's an expansion coefficient of 0.09
The thermal expansion coefficient of ice (that's after water is already frozen) is 0.000051, that's 0.0051% (at temperatures that are of any consequence to us) that means that it is physically impossible for the ice to contract enough to get denser than it's water form before freezing before it reaches absolute 0.

This is the Canadian national research council publication on the mechanical and structural properties of ice, the relevant info is on page 33(40), it lists the thermal expansion coefficients for ice at different temperatures.

https://nrc-publications.canada.ca/eng/view...ba-bc23014aceac

I'm not sure how many bongs were blown up in this research, but these numbers are solid and confirmed by many other papers and experiments.

Anyone remember when the crack went thru the guys hut?

where soon guna either need a lawyer here or some safe ice on simcoe. ..

existing ice does become denser and therefore contracts as it cools down as most other solids do


cracks are caused by a multitude of factors and I suspect wind caused sheet movements and freezing of open areas are the biggest factors, there is significant expansion when water turns into ice so there can be a lot of pressure in the ice sheet

So.. converting this thread to WARNING: Scientific Disagreements


Regardless of the technical explanation... the base fact is, water changing state in to ice occupies more space, so in a sense it does expand. No, not “technically” expanding, but it does.

The occupation of more space CAN and DOES have an effect on surrounding ice. It is not just waves and wind.

Just my thoughts... not looking to get involved in this heated thread, just dropping in for a bit of reality based on the common sense factor.

This is getting ridiculous

When water freezes it expands by 9%, that's an expansion coefficient of 0.09
The thermal expansion coefficient of ice (that's after water is already frozen) is 0.000051, that's 0.0051% (at temperatures that are of any consequence to us) that means that it is physically impossible for the ice to contract enough to get denser than it's water form before freezing before it reaches absolute 0.

This is the Canadian national research council publication on the mechanical and structural properties of ice, the relevant info is on page 33(40), it lists the thermal expansion coefficients for ice at different temperatures.

https://nrc-publications.canada.ca/eng/view...ba-bc23014aceac

I'm not sure how many bongs were blown up in this research, but these numbers are solid and confirmed by many other papers and experiments.

So have you guys accounted for sublimation???

Sublimation is the transition of a substance directly from the solid to the gas phase, without passing through the intermediate liquid phase.

I would suggest to stop this discussion about ice thermal expansion. It's pretty clear. If someone doesn't want to understand the general things and accept their wrong understanding let them live their way.
But I'm still confused about the size of the crack. I know technically it's possible that ice on a great distance could contract on this length but it's hard for me to think that it could happen instantly without an additional force, like wind or current etc.