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QUOTE (MarkDv @ Jan 16, 2019 - 09:25 pm)
I would suggest to stop this discussion about ice thermal expansion. It's pretty clear. If someone doesn't want to understand the general things and accept their wrong understanding let them live their way. But I'm still confused about the size of the crack. I know technically it's possible that ice on a great distance could contract on this length but it's hard for me to think that it could happen instantly without an additional force, like wind or current etc.
The best way I’ve found to look at it is... until the lake is locked up strong, it’s just a bunch of tectonic like frozen plates bouncing around on the lake... don’t even start me about tides and gravitational pull. Yes as minuscule as it might be... they do effect every drop of water on the planet.
Last season I commented that it seems the ice was far more active in the morning and evening... and this was regardless of wind and sun, cloudy or calm. Perhaps this is another factor that should be taken in to consideration. Its just a puddle on a rock flying through space...
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QUOTE (MarkDv @ Jan 16, 2019 - 09:25 pm)
I would suggest to stop this discussion about ice thermal expansion. It's pretty clear. If someone doesn't want to understand the general things and accept their wrong understanding let them live their way. But I'm still confused about the size of the crack. I know technically it's possible that ice on a great distance could contract on this length but it's hard for me to think that it could happen instantly without an additional force, like wind or current etc.
Ice has some elasticity, so it will "stretch" to a point, once the contraction builds up enough force to overcome the tensile strength of the ice, it will rupture and "snap" back.
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If a bolt(a solid) is rusted to a nut you heat the nut till it expands from the bolt. If the ice floats it has oxygen in it ? it will keep minnows alive in the summer with no airrator,to a point! Not only for cooling but as ice melts it expels oxygen.? Air can be compress water can't. water can will work in break lines like break fliud until it gets cold and freezes then it will expand and bust the line. As ice is forming it is trapping&compressing little teeny weeny air boubles trapped in the ice. the air within the ice wants to escape for it it is being compressed to the point that the ice holding it with in fails? Oxygen in water is constantly rising to the surface,under side of formed ice and trapped again & again
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After quickly glancing thru the comments here , I can tell you that you cannot take a seized nut off a bolt by heating it up. Simple physics. The heated nut expands, decreasing your clearance between the bolt and the nut. (The hole shrinks as the material expands)
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So, whatever the scientific reasons are, one fact remains undisputed: Ice expands and cracks, soooooo until it stops doing so, please stay away from dangerous areas and go chase perch instead. To get you going here's some teaser ...... [YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/C5AYXcioW5E[/YOUTUBE]
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QUOTE (Jstubbs @ Jan 17, 2019 - 12:58 pm)
"Ice has some elasticity, so it will "stretch" to a point, once the contraction builds up enough force to overcome the tensile strength of the ice, it will rupture and "snap" back."
So the ice stretching, but not expanding? Due to cold temps? But it behaves like a solid right?
Wow. Talk about foot in mouth lol
This is just hilarious at this point lol
I'm going to assume that in your other post you meant these comments as being contradictory on my part, so i will clarify these.
First i'll point out that the "stretch" was in quotes, that means that it has a special meaning in this case.
As lake ice contracts due to cooling temperature, it cant just change shape, there are forces that prevent this, such as, its frozen to the shore, the weight of the ice sheet itself. So instead of an actual deformation ("stretching") there are forces starting to build up in the ice. These forces will continue building up (without the ice changing dimensions, at least in the X and Y axis) to the point where it overcomes the tensile strength of the ice. At this point is when the ice cracks and the visibly physical contraction happens, and it happens suddenly (but of course not instantaneously).
If it was just a piece of free floating ice small enough where its weight could not overcome the contraction forces, it would contract and expand freely as the temperature changes.
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Topic locked due to idiotic behaviour...
All garbage posts have been taken to the dump where they belong.
Lazinators science is correct, ie. especially the references to the coefficients of thermal expansion. I am not going to elaborate on this further, in summary, H2O is a unique molecule and H-bonding and symmetry are the main forces affecting it's physical chemistry. Enough said..
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