Banning AR-15

FYI those of you guys sitting and saying F it my long guns aren’t in jeopardy, all I’ve got is my old 12 gauge and 30-30 for birds and deer, I challenge you to measure your bore diameter of a 12 or 10 gauge shotgun, with removable choke. Let me know if the bore diameter is smaller than 20mm the new proposed maximum diameter.

So sitting back asking why an AR has purpose in Canada. Read the list guys. Stop being mislead by the title. This isn’t an assault rifle ban. This is a GUN BAN. It doesn’t matter if you think an AR is scary or not. Guys and girls start pushing back!

THIS IS AN ALL OUT GUN BAN! Dictator Trudeau has gone too far.

The gauge of a shotgun is a specific designed and manufactured size. Guns are designed and made to exact specifications. By definition:

10 Gauge shotgun = 19.7 mm. Less than 20 mm

12 Gauge shotgun = 18 to 19 mm. Less than 20 mm

20 Gauge shotgun = about 15 mm....

Because they are designed and made to standard specifications, every 10, 12, or 20 gauge will have the same respective bore diameter.

The 10 Gauge isn't used much any more, but with a nominal bore size wouldn't be banned on account of its bore diameter.

Of course, any firearm can be tinkered with or customized, and yes I'm aware that some may have overbored their shotguns. I suppose an overbored 12 gauge could then be made larger than 20 mm...or a sawed off...

Just measured. Mine is over 20mm with the choke out.

Nuzpaper, your shotgun is Prohibited, sound the alarm.

Nuzpaper, your shotgun is Prohibited, sound the alarm.

Well, in previous posts I asked people to prove me wrong. I guess you just did! I don't own 12 gauges with thread-in chokes.

However, I sincerely doubt that the Govt. has any intention of coming after you or me and taking our 12 gauge bird guns. I also absolutely KNOW that the Govt. will never plan to implement the buy-back program for every 12 gauge in Canada....how much $$$$ would they be out? 10s of millions if not billions of $$$$ to buy back hunters and farmers 12 gauges??? No, I don't think so. I'm not sold on that conspiracy.

Before someone starts suggesting it, I am not a Trudeau or Liberal supporter and have never voted liberal in my life...but I also don't have the tinfoil cap on my head either.

Most importantly in my opinion - Simple documented fact - the gauge system of measurement for the internal bore diameter of a shotgun is 100% based on, and originated from the diameter of each of that number of spherical lead balls whose total weight equals a pound. Therefore, the internal diameter of a 12 gauge shotgun barrel is equal to the diameter of a lead ball weighing 1/12 pound, which happens to be .729" (18.5 mm)….regardless of threaded chokes. Therefore, a "12 Gauge" shotgun, by definition, has a bore diameter of less than 20 mm based on how the Gauge system was created and defined.

Yep, I agree that this may have been a dumb oversight. Or, they know that the 12 gauge, by definition of the measurement system, is less than 20 mm and they never intend to target these guns.... I'm sure this discrepancy will be corrected. Believe what you want, or keep trying to get shotgun owners riled up.

You have your joules and your ft-lb mixed up, 1 joule is 0.7375ft-lb not the other way around.
10k joules is 7375ft-lbs.

You are correct, nobody needs that kind of power for deer hunting in Canada.
But some of the hunters that live in Canada also travel to hunt on other continents where some of the popular dangerous game rifles do exceed that muzzle energy. Now they are being turned into criminals.
There's also the .50BMG which is popular for long range shooting, it also well exceeds the 7375ft-lb muzzle energy.

You dont own a rifle with that much muzzle energy, so you dont care if they get banned.
You dont own a semi auto sport shooting rifle, so you dont care if they get banned.

But you really should. They are of great value to you, and to every hunter and recreational shooter in Canada, you just dont realize their value.
These rifles are a buffer, they are what stands between the anti hunting anti shooting horde and the guns you actually do own and care about. Now they can concentrate on getting more guns banned, putting more limits on hunting and sport shooting.

The worst thing we as a group of hunters/shooters can do is be fragmented, and indifferent to these things because they "dont affect me personally"

A famous quote by Martin Niemöller comes to mind:
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."


If we are indifferent and we let them come for SOME of us, sooner or later it will be US they will be coming for.

Nuzpaper, your shotgun is Prohibited, sound the alarm.

It was really hard to measure since it fell out of the boat last week. Had to swim down to measure. It's kind of weird. All my guns seem to be falling out the boat lately;)

You have your joules and your ft-lb mixed up, 1 joule is 0.7375ft-lb not the other way around.
10k joules is 7375ft-lbs.

You are correct, nobody needs that kind of power for deer hunting in Canada.
But some of the hunters that live in Canada also travel to hunt on other continents where some of the popular dangerous game rifles do exceed that muzzle energy. Now they are being turned into criminals.
There's also the .50BMG which is popular for long range shooting, it also well exceeds the 7375ft-lb muzzle energy.

You dont own a rifle with that much muzzle energy, so you dont care if they get banned.
You dont own a semi auto sport shooting rifle, so you dont care if they get banned.

But you really should. They are of great value to you, and to every hunter and recreational shooter in Canada, you just dont realize their value.
These rifles are a buffer, they are what stands between the anti hunting anti shooting horde and the guns you actually do own and care about. Now they can concentrate on getting more guns banned, putting more limits on hunting and sport shooting.

The worst thing we as a group of hunters/shooters can do is be fragmented, and indifferent to these things because they "dont affect me personally"

A famous quote by Martin Niemöller comes to mind:
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."


If we are indifferent and we let them come for SOME of us, sooner or later it will be US they will be coming for.

So true. Stated in the illegal legislation is that they will watch to see what gun owners start to buy because of this and they will see if those need to be banned. Remember, this wasn't voted on by our parties.That isn't democracy.

Thanks for the joules to ft-pounds conversion

You have your joules and your ft-lb mixed up, 1 joule is 0.7375ft-lb not the other way around.
10k joules is 7375ft-lbs.

You are correct, nobody needs that kind of power for deer hunting in Canada.
But some of the hunters that live in Canada also travel to hunt on other continents where some of the popular dangerous game rifles do exceed that muzzle energy. Now they are being turned into criminals.
There's also the .50BMG which is popular for long range shooting, it also well exceeds the 7375ft-lb muzzle energy.

You dont own a rifle with that much muzzle energy, so you dont care if they get banned.
You dont own a semi auto sport shooting rifle, so you dont care if they get banned.

But you really should. They are of great value to you, and to every hunter and recreational shooter in Canada, you just dont realize their value.
These rifles are a buffer, they are what stands between the anti hunting anti shooting horde and the guns you actually do own and care about. Now they can concentrate on getting more guns banned, putting more limits on hunting and sport shooting.

The worst thing we as a group of hunters/shooters can do is be fragmented, and indifferent to these things because they "dont affect me personally"

A famous quote by Martin Niemöller comes to mind:
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."


If we are indifferent and we let them come for SOME of us, sooner or later it will be US they will be coming for.

I agree with much of what you and others are saying and thanks for the clarification on the joules to ft-pounds. I had it reversed, which still doesn't push the rifles I pointed out even close to the 10,000 threshold. The 460 Weatherby exceeds the 10,000 joules as you've noted and that is unfortunate for those who own the gun. No, I don't own one and don't plan to hunt elephants or other dangerous African game that it was designed for. However, I can see how this will be frustrating for those ho do own the gun.

You quote my earlier responses but then say that I don't care about others...All of my posts on this issue indicate that I completely disagree with th kneejerk reaction to create this legislation, and that I do not believe that law abiding gun owners should be penalized. Just like the former long-gun registry where all the law-abiding owners registered their guns, while criminals went on doing what they do, I don't believe it is the solution.

So, to be clear I do care. But, I guess I fail to see the need for a 50 caliber Browning Machine Gun (50 BMG - the firearm you have pointed out) in my gun cabinet. I personally have no need for a gun that fires a round that was specifically designed and constructed by Mr. Browning for military purposes as an armour piercing, anti-aircraft and anti-armour vehicle gun. But I suppose if others have such a need, and really want that type of military firearm, so be it...

The shotgun issue is a red-herring in my opinion. I hope it is clarified and I expect it will be. Since the Gauge System is a unit of measure - i.e., is designed and recognized worldwide as a specific documented system of measurement, the "12 gauge" shotgun is, by definition, less than 20 mm. I do not disagree that some thread-ins may exceed that. Hopefully that oversight is corrected.

For 12 Gauges, I guess the Key Question is - why do you think the legislation specifically used 20 mm as the determining bore diameter? Just a random number they pulled from their arses?? Could it be because the known bore diameter of a 10 gauge, as defined by the Gauge System, is known to be just less than 20mm thereby intentionally excluding all hunting shotguns from the ban? Seems logical. I guess that's what I think...but maybe I'm giving too much credit[U]

You are confusing a caliber with a gun that fires it. I havent heard of a single case of an aircraft being taken down by somebody with a .50BMG rifle in Canada.
Yet there are lots of people who enjoy using them for long range target shooting.

The 30-06 was specifically designed for the military as well.

You dont agree with kneejerk legislation, but at the same time you point out that you dont see why anybody would need these types of firearms in the first place and you dont see how it would affect the typical hunter. At best, thats mixed messaging

You are confusing a caliber with a gun that fires it. I havent heard of a single case of an aircraft being taken down by somebody with a .50BMG rifle in Canada.
Yet there are lots of people who enjoy using them for long range target shooting.

The 30-06 was specifically designed for the military as well.

You dont agree with kneejerk legislation, but at the same time you point out that you dont see why anybody would need these types of firearms in the first place and you dont see how it would affect the typical hunter. At best, thats mixed messaging

I'm not confusing anything. Simply pointing out what the 50 BMG is, as some reading may have no idea. I received a call from a person who was in a panic because they were told that their 50 cal muzzleloader was now banned and he wouldn't be able to participate in the annual black-powder hunt. He was confused because he was misinformed and told that "those Govt idiots are now coming for our black powder deer rifles too.."

There is much misinformation! Let's not spread bad, wrong, confused, misinformed facts. My friend's 50 cal black powder is not now banned...but some guy saw 50 cal BMG is banned, or was given bad information from someone, and all of a sudden there is irrational fear. Others may see 50 cal...banned...oh no, and jump to bad conclusions. Or they may be outright given bad information. There's lots of "riling up the troops" going on.

50 BMG stands for 50 cal Browning Machine Gun. No confusion at my end.

The 30-06 was specifically designed for the military as well.

Yes, the 30-06, 7mm, 8mm, .303, .308....etc... All now common hunting calibers throughout North America. What's your point?

You are confusing a caliber with a gun that fires it. I havent heard of a single case of an aircraft being taken down by somebody with a .50BMG rifle in Canada.
Yet there are lots of people who enjoy using them for long range target shooting.

The 30-06 was specifically designed for the military as well.

You dont agree with kneejerk legislation, but at the same time you point out that you dont see why anybody would need these types of firearms in the first place and you dont see how it would affect the typical hunter. At best, thats mixed messaging

I'm not confusing anything. Simply pointing out what the 50 BMG is, as some reading may have no idea. I received a call from a person who was in a panic because they were told that their 50 cal muzzleloader was now banned and he wouldn't be able to participate in the annual black-powder hunt. He was confused because he was misinformed and told that "those Govt idiots are now coming for our black powder deer rifles too.."

There is much misinformation! Let's not spread bad, wrong, confused, misinformed facts. My friend's 50 cal black powder is not now banned...but some guy saw 50 cal BMG is banned, or was given bad information from someone, and all of a sudden there is irrational fear. Others may see 50 cal...banned...oh no, and jump to bad conclusions. Or they may be outright given bad information. There's lots of "riling up the troops" going on.

50BMG is the Browning Machine Gun. No confusion at my end.

.50BMG is a caliber (cartridge), not a gun.

I always thought BMG stood for big mutha****in gun! On one hand I am glad 12ga with screw in chokes are over 20mm as it will be the best chance of actually getting something done about it when it affects virtually every hunter in the country not just a section of sport shooters...and I would hope anybody with a newly prohibited gun grandfather's it if given the option as I'm sure this government can't last forever and somebody may come along with a shred of sense and make them lawful again...