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> Warning., We can all learn from our mistakes.
Hubbabubba
Posted: Feb 04, 2025 - 03:03 pm


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Yep. The stupid waste of the whitefish resource on lake Simcoe is a resource crime in my books. Baurotrauma effects fall on deaf ears. The most destructive threat to the whitefish stocks in this lake is the winter catch and release angler crowd. They'll say they are conservationists in that they are releasing their catch, yet they fail to acknowledge that 95% of the deepwater fish they "release' are dead within hours. Retrieving a whitefish from anything deeper than 1 atmosphere change in pressure (32 feet) is a death sentence. I'll never forget three years ago in mid February when a thaw cleared the snow and you could see through the clear black ice. I visited a few of the hotspots (north of Thorah, off Snake Isle, off Willow Beach)where the whitefish stack up. The ice was absolutely riddled with auger holes. I counted 87 dead whitefish under the ice at Thorah, 103 off Willow Beach. and 66 at Snake. The CO's on patrol just shake their heads as the "crime" is not enforceable. Imagine the total mortality for the entire lake! Thank god they stock it. I've seen groups of 6-10 anglers release forty whitefish in less than 2 hours, in 45-70 FOW when a hot bite is on. What a waste. The only saving factor these days is that the whitefish have adapted to the forage base and are now targeting round goby at shallower depths. Places like the north tip of Thorah Island. You're fishing the rocks/gravel in less than 25 feet of water now. I'd love to see a lake-specific regulation for winter angling on Simcoe to eliminate the damaging catch and release crowd. I don't know how it could be enforced.

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dmaster
Posted: Feb 04, 2025 - 05:15 pm


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Very good topic, kind of long time awaiting for.

You can find some information, precautions about steelhead proper release, but nothing about lakes, deep lakes.

MNR must act and restrict catch and release in deep waters!
Countless killed lakers on Simcoe, I still hear those voices in my head from some chat from past, like from 2017-2018:
- I pulled today over FIFTY lakers !
- How many did you keep?
- Nothing, all released...
...and very proud by himself person was smiling!!!!! Killer, nothing more than that....

I believe people must be fishing and hunting only for those animals/fish they eat. Or stay home and watch TV !
Do not allow to kill fish for pleasure!

Only one good thing - hunters cannot release harvested deer...

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Fisherman
Posted: Feb 04, 2025 - 06:02 pm


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It would be nice if the MNR saw this thread and did something about changing the regs to reflect the abuse.

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Hubbabubba
Posted: Feb 04, 2025 - 06:29 pm


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MNR is more than aware of it. I've had this discussion with the patrolling CO's on the lake and they all agree it's a major resource rape. It would be very time consuming trying to enforce a "no C&R" regulation. The CO would have to basically park themselves with a spotting scope and directly watch an individual to see if they were continuing to fish after pulling up two whitefish. I've watched the Cos pull out the spotting scope and watch big angler groups. They do this to charge party fishers. It amazes me how many people don't realize that you cannot party angle! I've seen big groups where one angler catches maybe 10 whitefish, and kicks the fish over to his buddies as he's hauling them up. Then the CO shows up and asks who wants the provincial offences ticket for the 8 extra fish over limit. Hopefully enough C&R anglers will educate themselves by reading info on forums like this one. That's the problem - the damage that results from their actions is not acknowledged because it's not visible. Same deal happens with muskellunge eg. the person who fishes with light gear, resulting in a fight that is 4x as long as it would be with proper gear, then they don't use a cradle, then they remove the fish from the water and vertically hold the fish for a picture, maybe drop it on the floor of the boat twice, then they pass the fish to their buddy for a pic. That fish has now been held out of the water for 2-3 minutes and has suffered internal damage and extreme cumulative stress from the botched procedure. They pump the fish for four minutes until it apparently revives, then they think they just live released the 18-22lb female. She is dead within ten hours from capture myopathy. Someone gets to find the trophy fish floating belly up and decomposing two days later when the gas brings it to the surface. The fish usually has the red edema rash on its flanks and the scales will be "puffed" from lymph edema.

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Hubbabubba
Posted: Feb 04, 2025 - 06:44 pm


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In a way , the whole deal is ironic. Those retained lake trout and whitefish from Simcoe are almost inedible in my books. I love eating both species. I had never tasted a bad laker until I tried my first Simcoe trout. A small 6 pounder. It had pasty white flesh and tasted absolutely disgusting. Reminded me of the swampy blue-green algae taste a largemouth will get in the summer. I tried a smaller 4 pounder (which were hard to get on Simcoe 20 years ago). Same deal. So foul it almost wasn't worth smoking. I've never fished for them since. I find the whitefish out of this lake to be lousy table fare as well, when compared to any Haliburton or Muskoka whitefish. Even with total removal of the red muscle "mud band", I find anything over four pounds to be terrible (strong muddy/fishy taste). I used to use them to make a masala or tai curry dish to mask the taste. Those big 8-10lb humpbacks with the fat pad behind the head would not be fit for dog food, yet you see people keeping them. I can't even imagine how bad a bigger laker would be.

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InformativeAngling
Posted: Feb 04, 2025 - 08:20 pm


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Good research here Jamie, personally I am guilty of catching a few deep whities over limit for C&R as seen in my last video. After our convo on the topic in another thread I made the decision for myself to now just target them shallow if intending to C&R. Just not worth causing any potential damage. I usually never bring up fish from more than 30FOW with whities being the exception so I was never really concerned about barotrauma issues, obviously the potential for damage with WF was apparent to me hence why I wouldnt go mayhem catching and releasing double digits but thats no excuse. I am glad the suspended fish I like to target are always hanging out above 30FOW with some exceptions once in a while but I just skip those guys. Also the only way this can be enforced would be by prohibiting fishing for a species once you’ve iced your limit, besides this I dont see a realistic solution. Then again im not sure how you can prove someone is specifically targeting WF when they can just say their fishing for lake trout or burbot.

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Flukes
Posted: Feb 04, 2025 - 08:33 pm


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QUOTE (InformativeAngling @ Feb 04, 2025 - 08:20 pm)
Good research here Jamie, personally I am guilty of catching a few deep whities over limit for C&R as seen in my last video. After our convo on the topic in another thread I made the decision for myself to now just target them shallow if intending to C&R. Just not worth causing any potential damage. I usually never bring up fish from more than 30FOW with whities being the exception so I was never really concerned about barotrauma issues, obviously the potential for damage with WF was apparent to me hence why I wouldnt go mayhem catching and releasing double digits but thats no excuse. I am glad the suspended fish I like to target are always hanging out above 30FOW with some exceptions once in a while but I just skip those guys. Also the only way this can be enforced would be by prohibiting fishing for a species once you’ve iced your limit, besides this I dont see a realistic solution. Then again im not sure how you can prove someone is specifically targeting WF when they can just say their fishing for lake trout or burbot.

For sure, the "targeting" of another species in the same area will be a problem to enforce and that will for sure be up to the angler to do the right thing (not just legal thing) because as many of us know, you can catch WF, lakers, burbot, cisco and even perch in the same place in deep waters using the same lure so it will be hard to "prove" an angler was not targeting one of the other species (AND burbot has no limit so technically, if someone gets their limits on WF, lakers, cisco and perch, he/she can still be targeting burbot.
Maybe the only way around this is that once you hit one limit, you are (legally) done???? Otherwise, I can't see how anything could hold up in court.
But then again, someone can do what I did when I was younger and ignorant of the barotrauma issue and keep one less than their limit so he/she can continue to fish legally. Hard problem to solve.

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crappeeeman
Posted: Feb 04, 2025 - 08:38 pm


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I have posted on handling fish and Barotrauma previous to this post. Respecting everyones opinions is a great concern of mine. There are many species of fish within driving distance of our homes. Many of these fish are more susceptible to over handling and barotrauma than others. There are quite a few studies on handling fish and Barotauma. Most of these studies have similar but not exact results. This is why I watched thousands of hours of videos since the fall, to get a hands on accurate factual visual on how the average angler handles a fish. Shallow to deeper water, handling a fish is a delicate process. We don't need to debate percentages of mortality rates in fish because no group of anglers will agree on the same numbers. The purpose of the post was only to save a fish or two or maybe thousands of fish can be saved. The purpose of the post was to let my fellow members know what I have been watching with great sadness for a few months now. We can do better. We can pass on what we see and learn from it. I am going to try and take my pictures as I release a walleye that's out of the slot. The quicker it goes back in the water the better. Many of you have seen my release pictures from a pail. This works great and I barely touch the fish. We can do better that's all that's being said here. I picked on the bad social media anglers a bit, because some of them deserve to be picked on. But the message remains the same for everyone. We can all do better to protect the fishery. I am done with this post now.Thanks again for reading and replying in a positive way.

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crappeeeman
Posted: Feb 04, 2025 - 08:48 pm


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One more. Flukes and InformativeAngling were writing at the same time as I was. Much respect to you two and all that took the time to write their thoughts down on a delicate topic. Now I am done......................................................................................Maybe.

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sdcaller
Posted: Feb 04, 2025 - 10:08 pm


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I hope this isn't a "dumb" question.

Is it only fish that are hooked and brought to the surface that suffer barotrauma?

What about the "chasers" that chase your lure from the bottom in 100fow and turn and go back down 5feet below the ice?

SDC

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crappeeeman
Posted: Feb 04, 2025 - 10:30 pm


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QUOTE (sdcaller @ Feb 04, 2025 - 10:08 pm)
I hope this isn't a "dumb" question.

Is it only fish that are hooked and brought to the surface that suffer barotrauma?

What about the "chasers" that chase your lure from the bottom in 100fow and turn and go back down 5feet below the ice?

SDC

There are no dumb questions, that's a good question. My assumption is a fish knows it's limitations swimming freely on its own, at depth to chase bait up or down. Hooked on the end of a fishing line and thrashing and fighting to get free interrupts the natural process. Only a few species can handle that stress of being pulled from depth to the surface. . . . . . Best guess, I am not a fishologist. LOL.

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Dogfish1979
Posted: Yesterday at 04:25 pm


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This is why if I catch i keep in winter...big if...i was unaware of this my first few years ice fishing...someone told me with perch just pop there bladder and release..not good advice, best to keep everything when fishing deep imo.
There should be public taggings, with text report on catch, location depth etc. To help track...also the old catch your limit and stop fishi g reg is a grey area...to keep fishing when your limit is already on the ice, is right up there with oos pictures, grey area, unless someone can clarify. Any one seen conservation officers lately? Can you use perch eyes as bait in ontario?

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crappeeeman
Posted: Today at 12:12 am


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QUOTE (Dogfish1979 @ Feb 05, 2025 - 04:25 pm)
This is why if I catch i keep in winter...big if...i was unaware of this my first few years ice fishing...someone told me with perch just pop there bladder and release..not good advice, best to keep everything when fishing deep imo.
There should be public taggings, with text report on catch, location depth etc. To help track...also the old catch your limit and stop fishi g reg is a grey area...to keep fishing when your limit is already on the ice, is right up there with oos pictures, grey area, unless someone can clarify. Any one seen conservation officers lately? Can you use perch eyes as bait in ontario?

Yes you are right, popping the swim bladder (fizzing) is a very bad practice. Internal injuries, infections, may not heal and cause more trouble for the fish. Just another ridiculous idea from someone with too much time on their hands. Another monkey see monkey do scenario.

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